if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

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if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

philip kupfer
i no perdiswell is currently a council run golf course and i no it has not got the finacial backing like the other courses have in the surrounding area but if it is ever to get out of the bad reputation which it has got around the county of being a boring municipal something needs to be done on the course and off it , currently we have no juniour academy to speak of nor a ladys section both of which every club needs for it to survive and produce players to keep the club going , im sorry to say it but a more proactive approach from our alledged pro needs to do more as to be quite frank seems to do very little to get the club out there to new comers also most pro shops stack well known golf merchandise not second rate stuff at prices that to be honest are poor in comparison to other surrounding golf clubs! greens also need cutting on a regular basis i played today and the course to be honest was atrocious clover all over the greens appearing and mushrooms in some cases!!! i no courses take a long time to prepare but its a joke now to be honest and as far as im concerned the greens have not been good at all for a long time its about time we had people in place that new what they were doing keep using the same excuses as being a municipal is poor because there are prime examples of well kept municipals around here and abroad bethpage black is a municiple im just fed up of going away to other courses and coming back to perdiswell and seeing it in such atrocious condition , sorry if im blunt but clearly nothing is being done and if it is its not being done very well! rant over.
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

Tom Jenkins
I played this afternoon and thought the greens looked in decent condition to be honest. (Holing a few putts means I am going to be more positive than if I hadn't) We would all prefer the greens to be cut more often but that costs more money which would have to be paid by us through an increased membership fee. We pay for what we get.
With regards your disillusionment at the work of the pro, put yourself in his shoes for a moment. He would love to be doing sessions for juniors and bringing new golfers through as these people will pay for lessons, buy equipment from him etc but where do you propose he holds these lessons? He can't do it out on the course as he would have members complaining about that. Also, I am sure he is in a pretty unenviable position of not knowing what will be happening in the next 6 months. No where on the plans for the sports centre when the swimming pool is built is a pro shop so not sure why anyone would be investing in expensive stock when he may not have anywhere to sell it from later on in the year.
I played with Steve Williams today and he said the comments from the opposition during yesterday's handicap league match were complimentary about the course.
We all want better but the club needs to live within its means and I think we should all be pretty happy with what we have. If not then there are courses that do have quicker greens and no rough out there but you pay more than double a year than at Perdiswell.
If we look at where the club is now compared to 4-5 years ago I think you can see there have been improvements.
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

philip kupfer
your points taken tom but i for one would happily pay more if it meant that the course was up to a decent standard ! and sorry to say but if you think the greens are in decent nick you need your eyes testing mate! because they are awful , and its an excuse as to why they are not cut enough because there are plenty of municpal courses around the county that are in far better condition and get cut on a regular basis than our course, and we all no your mates with the pro so fairplay to you for defending him , but even before this swimming pool saga as happened he dosent do enough in my opinion to promote the course or to sell you decent equipment in comparison to other pro outlets ive been to. if your seriously think that course is good condition then you are deluded and just because we pay a smaller fee than other clubs that means we shoudant have an opinion and all think its great to play on poor surface sorry mate but im entitled to my opinion and disgree with majority of what your saying. people are just afraid to speak out but i am not and thats why i suppose ive got a reputation within the club as being someone who is controversial but i speak my mind.
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

Chris Williams
Hi Phil,

Everybody is entitled to an opinion I agree, but lets be constructive and not personal. Compared to 3 years ago the course is in fantastic condition.  Yes the greens can be a little long at times and most of us would like them to be a touch shorter. The committee are in constant contact with the green staff and Mark and do our best to put our opinions over.

Let's not forget the course is heavily subsidized by the Council.  In my opinion we have fantastic value for money.  We are one of the cheapest course's around if not the cheapest. What do we get for our money.

1) A course that is very rarely closed.
2) A parkland course albeit on the short side is still challenging and to quote a playing partner from Kidderminster Golf Club (from Sunday) it plays fantastic and is very similar to a links course when the wind is up. Now bearing in mind this is from someone who is a member of a private course and pays green fees of £1100 per year.
3) We have over 104 competitions a year - please name another club that has this .............
4) For an extra £5.00 per month you can also use the gym, swimming pool and associated classes - unlimited.
5) We now have a Pro that we have begun a new relationship with and is now working alongside us to improve the experience at the course.  A junior section has been discussed between Ian Portas Centre Manager, Mark and ourselves (this will not happen overnight).
6) We have green fees that are comparable to none for Juniors and those that are out of work.
7) We have a Committee that is working hard behind the scenes to make sure that the course improves and the experience improves.
8) A media section that most clubs would envy.
9) A social side which is hard to beat.

As far as the green staff are concerned, they are in my opinion doing a fantastic job with the limited time and resources they have.  We all have concerns about the areas of the rough being too long.  We have put suggestions forward on using volunteers to help with this but due to Health and Safety and Risk Assessment issues this is not possible at the moment.  That being said we have put another proposal forward that we hope will resolve this issue.

As in any organisation we have to work at things constantly.  If you stay still things will only move backwards.

I guess what I am trying to say Phil, please have your say, but also please come up with some constructive and viable solutions.

We are trying to move forward as a club and will try and move things on positively year on year.  We now have the first draft of our business plan which should be complete by September.

I am proud of our course and what we are trying to achieve, lets hope we can change the mind of one unhappy member.

Kind Regards

Chris Williams
Club Secretary
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

philip kupfer
Not one unhappy member at all chris just a member who has the balls to say what they think , you make valid points it has improved in some areas but my point regarding juniors is that if we don't have them the club will shut anyway because vast majority of members are of a older nature and for a club to be successful you need youth that is my point, and as far as the greens perhaps a better plan of when to cut them can be devised as be major comps which are on Saturdays they should be cut, if you take an actual look the surfaces we have got are good and all it needs is appropriate cutting when weather permits, a lot of the members complain about the pro shop and the course I'm not going to give praise course wise when I don't feel the standard is great regardless  of what we pay.
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

Tom Jenkins
Does the club need juniors to survive or is that a bit of a myth? How many junior members join a golf club and stay members into adulthood and how many of our current adult members were junior members (either at Perdiswell or at another golf club previously?).
I would think if someone did a bit of research into the average age of members joining golf clubs for the first time it is likely to be well over 30 years old.

I may be wrong but I believe that the green keepers used to cut the grass on a Saturday morning prior to competitions but because they were doing this they were then given a full day off in the week and it was decided that it is better value for money for the council to have their staff working 5 full days Monday to Friday than 4 full days and a few hours on a Saturday morning. Again in comes down to cost as most things do.

People like to moan about lots of things because it is easy to do but if they were that upset with the condition of the course, the pro shop, the bar or whatever then they would take their trade elsewhere. Whether that be to Droitwich, Bransford, Ravensmeadow, Gaudet Luce, Ombersley or wherever, there is not a shortage of other courses and clubs around so it can't be that bad.
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

philip kupfer
not moaning tom its an opinion theres a major differance mate, and if i was more finacially able to join another golf club i would do and if i drove! i joined perdiswell off the back of tolladine shutting down and may i just make the point tolladine did very well producing juniours as they went on most of them to play for the county and represent them in major comps around the county something which is vital for our club to do to get the recognition for the club! the whole point of a golf club is to promote it and to keep it open we need an influx of members and preferably younger ones as we need a future handicap league , a juniour team etc etc perhaps you dont see the benifits of this but if you go round majority of golf clubs they put there time into the younger people because ultimately there the 1s that will keep club going when were long gone! so its no myth mate thats a fact! !! hope that clears up your apparant confusion on what im getting at!.
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

philip kupfer
oh yeah tom as well i was a junior member at tolladine and stayed there till it shut and i was also a junior when i came to perdiswell and im still here now and im 26! so theres an example for your and john griffiths too was a junior at perdiswell and hes still here!
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

Tom Jenkins
In reply to this post by philip kupfer
I didn't say you were moaning. I was alluding to the point you made saying you have heard lots of members moaning and was aiming my point at that.
You kind of assist my point though. I don't know the ins and outs of why tolladine shut but I would guess money was somewhere at the heart of it but surely if junior membership is so key and Tolladine were so good at promoting and bringing through juniors then they it still be there now?
I don't think doing more to get juniors in is a bad thing but we are not in the position to have the facilities for them. It's no good throwing them out onto the course and we are not going to get an increase in space in order to provide sufficient practice facilities.
I reckon if you did a survey of Perdiswell members and asked them when they took up golf regularly and I bet there won't be many people saying under 18 (even though I would myself)
You named yourself and John as examples of junior members who have stayed on but there are plenty of juniors who haven't too.
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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

philip kupfer
tolladine shut because people who were in charge ran off with the money and ran it in a very bad way thats why it shut  and thats why we left  well we had no other choice ! anyway i think we both differ in opinions and at the end of the day you have had your say i have had mine ! what will be will be!
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Mark Woodward Responds :

Peter Brown
Administrator
Please note this is Mark Woodward's response to your comments Phil :


I  KNOW it's important to express your feelings and gain information to why certain things are as they are. The course itself has a budget, we would, including myself, love to have the greens cut shorter and more regularly, and areas of the rough cut to a more manageable length, as well as practice facilities. But with current limitations it is not possible. The greenkeepers are doing a fantastic job for the time and machinery they have. The feedback has been very positive from members, and also members of other golf clubs.

As for the golf equipment in the shop, people now buy from the internet. Customers go into a shop, look, touch, feel, swing the club, scratch the bottom, then go home and buy from an online supplier. I have the ability to order most brands, and try to be as competitive as possible. Feel free to pop in and have a chat about the equipment you are interested in ordering. This is what a lot of people are doing.  

P.S
This was your course not all that long ago !









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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

Peter Brown
Administrator
In reply to this post by philip kupfer
Phil, I've tried hard not to put my oar in here but feel that, after Mark has responded, I perhaps should!

Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions.  However, over the last few years I have seen PPGC grow and move forward, in every respect, not least in the way the course is maintained and presented.

I think we all have to be respectful of the work the greenkeepers do and also we should try to understand Mark's unenviable position at the moment.

I too would like to see many aspects of the course improved; mostly the deep rough!!  I think the greens, generally, are excellent and I certainly don't agree that other Municipal courses are better!! It's all about relative values and the lads do a great job within their budget and time-scales but we should remember that it's a little bit of "you get what you pay for"!  We Perdi Members get a fantastic deal at the moment.  I know that several people have said that they would be prepared to pay little bit more if any extra fees could go purely to course upkeep.  I don't think that will happen!!  We are very much in the hands of WCC on that score.  I think we really do have to be sensible in our expectations at PPGC and bear in mind please that the Committee are constantly trying to find ways of improving things but our hands are somewhat tied.

With respect to Mark's shop, we have not helped in that matter with the decision to allow vouchers to be redeemed at American Golf - don't you think that was a bit of a kick in the teeth for Mark?  I think Mark has been pretty fair considering the way we treated him on that one!!  'Keep it in-house' should be our edict!!  And yes, ask Mark if he can source what you want and see if he can get a good deal but you must remember that Mark doesn't have the buying power that American Golf has but I know he tries to get it right but we won't help things if we constantly take our vouchers elsewhere!!

'Nuff said!!

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Re: if the club is to move forward !!! urgently!

philip kupfer
i dont deny that there is trying involved and i do see the improvements i just want to feel confident as most people do of stroking the ball towards the hole rather than hammering it hard because of the surface being long i had a chat to mark anyway briefly b4 the round and i said maybe my comments were a bit strong but ive been a member now since i was about 16 and i no im only 26 now but i just want the course to be recognised as not just a good muni course, i also want us to improve our teams year in year out and build for the future although i no the future is uncertain and i appreciate that and i understand the club is on a budget! and as far as vouchers go i never spend my vouchers in american golf i use them to bolster the clubs profits upstairs in the bar area as i always use my vouchers for food and drink upstairs! so as regards me im constantly putting money back into the club and im on a budget too as my current work situation is not great at the moment ,and what ever money i do get i usually spend up the golf club because i love golf and its my passion!  perhaps i was a bit bold with my comments and i no your all trying your best withing the circumstances i just like seeing improvement and getting basic things wrong like tee blocks being illegal week after week is an easy thing to rectify its not just the big things its just the little things that seem to go unnoticed, i appreciate every1s point of view and im glad youve responded because i wanted a reaction because it seems there is very few reactions because every1 dosent voice there opinion enough, thankyou for your explanations though.